Nov Fastrack - Intake Rule Change

Bildon

Bildon

New member
Perhaps this has been discussed elsewhere here?

I just read GCR change / IT / Item 12 Effective immediately.

17.1.4.D.1.c

Intakes may be modified ahead of the throttle body and not just ahead of the MAF sensor. This is pretty big.

Am I correct in that we can now build a custom intake all the way to the TB and mount the MAF in this intake anywhere we like ???? :blink:
 
That was my read of it. Not sure what it would do for me, but I am sure there are several this will help out.

Wonder what that is going to do to all the assumed realtive performance that have been used lately for reorganizing classing...

Maybe some model that was assumed unable to get a certain amount of IT prepared power will now be able to get more?
 
Originally posted by Geo@Oct 22 2005, 09:34 PM
I seriously doubt that.
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Your skepticism is understandable. I could show our dyno numbers for when we switched from the IT legal intake to the World Challenge type intake during a test. But I won't :P Truly, it made ~5 hp more at higher RPMs.
 
Originally posted by Bildon@Oct 22 2005, 08:54 PM
Your skepticism is understandable. I could show our dyno numbers for when we switched from the IT legal intake to the World Challenge type intake during a test. But I won't  :P  Truly, it made ~5 hp more at higher RPMs.
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Does that source air from the stock location and can it be installed w/o relocation of other equipment that would render it illegal?
 
Originally posted by Geo@Oct 22 2005, 09:58 PM
Does that source air from the stock location and can it be installed w/o relocation of other equipment that would render it illegal?
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No rules nerd I, but my take is that the MAF meter may now be relocated within the engine compartment, since they qualify as being "air intake hoses, tubes, pipes, resonators, intake mufflers, housings, etc." under the "etc." clause. The only qualifier to the rule that I see relative to the MAF is the metering device "must be operational and shall not be modified."

So in short:

air intake - free ahead of the TB
MAF - operational, unmodified, location free within engine compartment
air source - remains engine compartment or stock location


Rules Nerds???
 
Originally posted by Bildon@Oct 22 2005, 09:21 PM
... and mount the MAF in this intake anywhere we like ????  :blink:
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Ummmm... within the limits of the stock wiring harness is what you mean, right?... ;) AND, "operational" means just that... the MAF needs to still be a functioning... er, "operational" part of the intake system, so I don't think I'd be trying to just leave it hanging under the hood... :rolleyes:

The rest of what you said is the intent... Now, more than just the Hondas can take advantage of an improved airtube leading to the TB...
 
Originally posted by Banzai240@Oct 23 2005, 06:44 PM
Ummmm...  within the limits of the stock wiring harness is what you mean, right?...  ;) 
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right but my resistors to the sensor (MAF) might be very low impedence wires that go all the way to the front of the car :D
 
I'm looking forward to the advice from our technical partners at Bildon, about how this will be applied to the new Golf engine. :D

K
 
Originally posted by Bildon@Oct 23 2005, 11:35 PM
right but my resistors to the sensor (MAF) might be very low impedence wires that go all the way to the front of the car   :D
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And you guys wonder why so many rule change requests get turned down...

I refuse to get involved with another rules-nerd pissing matches here... but I'll state this... if you go to Radio Shack, or Frye's, etc., and ask for a restistor, you will find that what you get will involve way more than something that simply is a length of wire... "A Resistor" is not mearly something with resistance...

Also, one allowance cannot be used to perform an otherwise illegal function, like lengthening the wiring harness beyond that necessary to install said resistor... You guys ALL KNOW what these rules say...

Now... That being said... Have at it... It will be up to your competitors and the tech shed to keep you in line... All we can do is try to write good rules, and balance things as best we can...

Personally, I don't care if you can get another 5-hp out of it, because we've already classified it with that type of optimization in mind! :P

Enjoy!
 
Umm I was kidding .. chill man <_< I have no need to put a resistor inline with the MAF or move it. Now a diode...that's another story.
 
Originally posted by Bildon@Oct 23 2005, 06:35 PM
right but my resistors to the sensor (MAF) might be very low impedence wires that go all the way to the front of the car  :D
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There is currently no rule that would allow for that.
 
This doesn't even amount to throwing crap at the wall and hoping it sticks.

In this case, the walls are teflon ;)

I suppose one might attempt to relocate the MAF somewhere else ("all the way to the front of the car...") but the air intake source must be within the engine compartment or the stock source.

Much ado about nothing it seems....
 
Originally posted by Geo@Oct 23 2005, 10:01 PM
There is currently no rule that would allow for that.
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Actually, George, there is.

The new rule states, "The installation of a resistor is allowed between the sensor and the OEM wiring harness."

There are no definitions of "a resistor" in the GCR (or other rules) nor are there any further restrictions on "a resistor" such as length, size, weight, blah, blah, blah. Following logic that even you have used in the past, therefore there are no restrictions on what one can do with "a resistor" or how one makes "a resistor".

In the dictionary, "resistor" is defined as, "a device used to control current in an electric circuit by providing resistance." Any electrical guru knows that all wire has resistance, and that resistance increases with length of the wire. Ergo, any wire is a resistor, not just the little items you buy at Radio Shack in a baggie. On the other hand, where does one define the extents of a length of a resistor? What if you were to buy one of the shrink-wrapped resistor from The Shack and added 3 feet of wire to each end? Who's the define where the resistor ends and the OEM harness begins?

Finally, the MAF is definitely a sensor.

So, taken to its extreme possibilities, what Bill (jokingly) proposes is, plain and simple, legal. If Bill got protested and I was ruling on it, I would pass it. Yep, it's against the spirit of the rules, but it's dead-nuts-on the letter of the rules. You can pull out the "tortured interpretation" sonata all you want but it's the same mindset that got us suspension bearings being called "bushings"... - GA
 
Originally posted by GregAmy@Oct 24 2005, 08:44 AM
Any electrical guru knows that all wire has resistance,
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Don't even have to be a guru to know that! That is an elementary aspect that most anyone who has ever installed an amp understands.
 
Originally posted by GregAmy@Oct 24 2005, 07:44 AM
Actually, George, there is.

The new rule states, "The installation of a resistor is allowed between the sensor and the OEM wiring harness."
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Is that rule currently in place or is it an 06 rule? I've lost track of which changes are going into effect when.
 
Guys... air and water have resistance as well... Neither of them would be considered a "resistor" in the context of what we are talking about...

But have at it... I'm willing to leave this to a very general and un-strained interpretation of these rules by a good tech inspector and by those competitors who are able to compete without twisting an otherwise simple rule to gain some additional advantage...
 
George: '06.

Originally posted by Banzai240
...air and water have resistance as well...  Neither of them would be considered a "resistor" in the context of what we are talking about...
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The problem, Darin, is that we are very inconsistent with the rules. Let's go back to my "bushings" example and couple it to your above comment: I've been told - by one (maybe two?) of the existing ITAC members - that "air" is also an acceptable bushing material to satisfy that rule (as is any other kind of material). Since air is an acceptable bushing material, so it must be an acceptable resistor; ergo, disconnection of the wires - or placing anything in there in its place - must be acceptable as well.

Trust me, there is *no one* more supportive of common-sense interpretations of rules and the "strained and tortured" clause. I recognize that it's totally outside the spirit of the rules; but Tech does not rule on spirit, it rules on the letter. Given the spirit of the rules I would gladly toss someone on their arse for running a 6-foot length of wire as as resistor. However, given the reality of where bearings can become suspension bushings, and half-width radiators with open holes for intakes can become legal (as in SM), and 5-pound blocks of steel can become mounting plates for kill switches (ibid), then 6-foot lengths of wire can very easily become resistors (and is exactly why we wrote rules to cover those last two items.)

Until we change the mindset of the rules and make a bushing a bushing, then wire is a resistor, and Lord knows how many other creative ideas are yet to be spoken amongst adult company... - GA
 
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