Hi, I need to adjust toe and camber on the rear of my scirocco, and I had been using the "blue adjusters", but every time I take them off I find that the (nylon?) blue part is broken (torn) in one or more places. Are there alternatives? I think I saw some supplier that has steel shims that adjust camber only, but what if I need to adjust toe as well? I was thinking that you could use high-quality hard washers between the stub axle and the trailing arm...
A1 rear wheel alignment
- Thread starter evanwebb
- Start date
The shims that I purchased from BSI many moons ago are metal and adjust both toe and camber. At last check, BSI was selling off their VW stuff so they may not carry that anymore but it's worth a shot.
BTW - Evan, your cooler is reposing quietly in my garage. Its contents are quite safe...
BTW - Evan, your cooler is reposing quietly in my garage. Its contents are quite safe...
Thanks Matt, I'll talk to Stu and see if he has metal shims. Thanks for taking care of my cooler, lets put it to use at MARRS 10. I think it will need new contents though 
Originally posted by mgyip@Sep 22 2005, 11:27 AM
The shims that I purchased from BSI many moons ago are metal and adjust both toe and camber. At last check, BSI was selling off their VW stuff so they may not carry that anymore but it's worth a shot.
BTW - Evan, your cooler is reposing quietly in my garage. Its contents are quite safe...
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JLawton
New member
I'm trying to remember what my set up looked liked. I thought you only have to turn (rotate) the Shine shims to get both toe and camber. May take some trial and error........
In fact, now that I remember, at the last NHIS race, a VW bent an axle and as a band-aide, Dick used one of the shims to get the proper toe..........
In fact, now that I remember, at the last NHIS race, a VW bent an axle and as a band-aide, Dick used one of the shims to get the proper toe..........
Bildon
New member
- Do you know how much your rear axle is bending under cornering side loads?
Because if not your toe and camber settings are not even close to correct. An anti-toe link is a good idea.
- An aluminum spacer placed UNDER the rear stub shaft and machined to give a baseline camber/toe setting is a good way to 'rough in' the settings. We then use the thinnest shims to fine tune. We used to use the nylon ones but now we use our metal shims.
Because if not your toe and camber settings are not even close to correct. An anti-toe link is a good idea.
- An aluminum spacer placed UNDER the rear stub shaft and machined to give a baseline camber/toe setting is a good way to 'rough in' the settings. We then use the thinnest shims to fine tune. We used to use the nylon ones but now we use our metal shims.
Joe Craven
New member
I just use starter shim stock which is intended for use on GM cars. I cut pieces from it in various thicknesses and mix and match until I get the toe and camber I need.
Joe Craven
New member
I bought my starter shim stock from Kragan auto in California - I think it is Checker elsewhere. It had various thicknesses and was cheap, about 5.99 IIRC.
Here is a link to something like I bought.
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail....artnumber=02350
Here are some higher quality shim stock
http://www.reliabilitydirect.com/shimprodu...CC-shimkits.htm
Here is a link to something like I bought.
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail....artnumber=02350
Here are some higher quality shim stock
http://www.reliabilitydirect.com/shimprodu...CC-shimkits.htm
racer14itc
New member
But is an anti-toe link legal under the IT rules?
MC
racer14itc
New member
Originally posted by Bildon@Sep 28 2005, 02:33 AM
Mark, would I suggest it if it weren't?
5.c.1 is wide open wrt wording...
Any antiroll bar, traction bar, Panhard, Watts .....
Mounts may be welded or bolted to structure .....
Traction bars used to control VW axle beamrotation shall be .. solid bar ... heim rods ok ....
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That's a grey area, to be sure. I'm not sure I'd want to defend it as a "traction bar".
That being said, I don't use anti-toe links on the prod car. If anything, the small deflection helps the car rotate!!
People who have tried the toe links have reported that they make the car twitchy, possibly due to the rear axle binding under deflection? MC
Bildon
New member
Originally posted by racer14itc@Sep 28 2005, 08:39 AM
That's a grey area, to be sure. I'm not sure I'd want to defend it as a "traction bar".
That being said, I don't use anti-toe links on the prod car. If anything, the small deflection helps the car rotate!!
MC
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>>That's a grey area, to be sure.
I don't think it's gray. I think the wording is quite clear.
The bar does rotate but not like a RWD high torque axle would. It rotates longitudinally due to sideloading removing camber and traction
as it twists. Also depending on the car and setup I would not say the deflection is 'small'. On the WC Golf 4 the deflection is huge, toe changes over 1/2 an inch with Toyo race tires, 800lb springs, etc.I've seen numerous Golfs using toes links effectively. One of the things you must do is make sure the bars are equal in length to the arc of the trailing arms or you'll get bind as you suggested. Also, if the bars are attached to the rear lower shock mount area you do nothing to crontrol the twisting moment which is created by the tire sideloading. (The force trying to roll the tire underneath the axle) So what is needed is that the rearward bar mount points need to be on and extended section that resists this sideloading / de-cambering force. Perhaps a picture will help.....
(excuse the welds) :angry:
racer14itc
New member
Bill,
After reading the GCR definition of a traction bar and your argument, I concede the point. Nice reading of the rules.
Now I just have to go home and make one for myself and try it out.
MC
After reading the GCR definition of a traction bar and your argument, I concede the point. Nice reading of the rules.
Now I just have to go home and make one for myself and try it out.
MC
Joe Camilleri
New member
Bill,
What do you think of these bars on A1 rear beams? The first one has rod ends that attach in the middle of the beam and the bottom of the trailing arm. The second one (in the next post) is bolted solid up higher on the trailing arm and about a third of the way on the beam.
Thanks.[attachmentid=71]
What do you think of these bars on A1 rear beams? The first one has rod ends that attach in the middle of the beam and the bottom of the trailing arm. The second one (in the next post) is bolted solid up higher on the trailing arm and about a third of the way on the beam.
Thanks.[attachmentid=71]
Joe Camilleri
New member
Here's the second one.
Bildon
New member
If the total travel is less that 2" then method #1 will work OK. But method #2 ?? That looks like it's prone to failure as the solid mounted tabs will fatigure, crack and break unless that's using the same metal the F1 cars use in place of rod ends
Is the outer mount on method #1 welded solid too? I fear that'll crack.
Here are some more pics. Drawing is of VW Motorsport factory design.
Joe Camilleri
New member
Bill,
Now I see what that first photo was. The car that has the solid bars is sprung very hard, I'm not sure how much travel the rear suspension has but it's probably not much. They are bolted via plates at both ends. I have seen another car that has them welded.
Thanks for the photos and drawing, they are very helpful.
Joe
Now I see what that first photo was. The car that has the solid bars is sprung very hard, I'm not sure how much travel the rear suspension has but it's probably not much. They are bolted via plates at both ends. I have seen another car that has them welded.
Thanks for the photos and drawing, they are very helpful.
Joe