Improved Touring: Air Dam ?

[Tom A]

Originally posted by Marcus Miller@Nov 20 2005, 08:54 AM
I can vouch for that one. It lasted all year until the last event when "someone" decided a cone needed to be moved.

Hey now, it took a beating, but it isn't terminal. Ron smacked 2 cones on Saturday, beat it back into shape for the Sunday race, and drilled another errant cone Sunday. He is consistant though, all 3 cones hit in pretty much the same spot.

This is how it looked Sunday afternoon:

I built it to take abuse, and it has far exceded my expectations.

Tom

 

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by Tom A@Nov 21 2005, 01:17 AM
Hey now, it took a beating, but it isn't terminal.  Ron smacked 2 cones on Saturday, beat it back into shape for the Sunday race, and drilled another errant cone Sunday.  He is consistant though, all 3 cones hit in pretty much the same spot.

This is how it looked Sunday afternoon:

I built it to take abuse, and it has far exceded my expectations.

Tom

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Did better than the Miata in the background!!!

AB

 

[darrinV]

Wow. Talk about hard core. I especially like the orange cone remains scraped along one side. ;-] I need to send this picture to a guy who did Bondurant with me. We called him the "Cone Killer".

D

 

[Tom A]

Originally posted by darrinV@Nov 21 2005, 09:54 AM
Wow.  Talk about hard core.  I especially like the orange cone remains scraped along one side.  ;-] 

That isn't cone residue, it is tape. The brake duct inlet on that side was closed from the back, but the plug didn't survive the first hit. The duct on the driver's side goes to the airbox (allowed by class rules).

Tom

 

[RacerBill]

Originally posted by JeffYoung@Nov 19 2005, 02:14 PM
Darrin, give me a call (919-286-8011). I've got a 260z, can help you with spoiler choices. As others have said, there are a lot of good, legal options out there.

NOW, riddle me this guys.  GCR says you can cut two holes for a SINGLE 3" duct right?  Most Zs I see run at least 4 ducts, 2 to the rotors and 2 to the calipers.  Is this ok under the "brakes may be ventilated rule?"

I've always wondered about this. If you see the pictures of Chet Wittel's orange Z that won the ARRC a couple of years back, it looks to me like he has 4 ducts. My Z came with 4 ducts, and I'd like to get them, but wonder about the legality of it.....

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Please don't forget that they have to be "total openings"!
GCR ITSC 17.1.4 D.8.b (pg 14) 'Where an air dam/spoiler is used, two total openings may be cut...'


I'm sorry, I just can't let that one go!!!!!

 

[Andy Bettencourt]

Originally posted by JeffYoung@Nov 19 2005, 01:14 PM

NOW, riddle me this guys.  GCR says you can cut two holes for a SINGLE 3" duct right?  Most Zs I see run at least 4 ducts, 2 to the rotors and 2 to the calipers.  Is this ok under the "brakes may be ventilated rule?"

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Ok, let's use Darin's car that he just bought for reference:

There are 4 ducts. 2 of them are integral to the airdam/spoiler. While they are molded, these IMHO count as the max 3" ducts you can cut. The other 2, above those - appear to be the brake ducts you can buy from Pegasus/etc. With no modifications to the front valence or airdam, I see these as legal as well.

I don't see any restrictions to the amount of ducts you can run to your brakes, just to the amount of customization you can make to a part you can legally install.

Then look at my attched pic of my RX-7. Those holes in the lower part of the bumper cover are stock. We (and most) use those for brake ducting. I submit I still have the option to cut two more holes for brake ducting as I haven't taken advantage of the allowance yet.

Two total openings may be cut...

AB

 

[darrinV]

Hey, that's a great picture of my car! ;-] I just took delivery from Jeff today. Who'd have thought spare parts could take up so much room in a garage ....

PS - Anyone trying to sell their tow rig or enclosed trailer?

Thanks
D

 

[Marcus Miller]

Originally posted by Andy Bettencourt@Nov 21 2005, 07:39 AM
Did better than the Miata in the background!!!

AB

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Yep.
That was my mentor's car..... 6 foot 6, rolled about 6 times at about 100 mph.
sore shoulder, whiplash, concussion, but otherwise okay.
Marcus

 

[GnC]

Originally posted by Marcus Miller@Nov 22 2005, 12:37 AM
Yep.
That was my mentor's car..... 6 foot 6, rolled about 6 times at about 100 mph.
sore shoulder, whiplash, concussion, but otherwise okay.
Marcus

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For what it's worth...I got a roll of sheet plastic from Performance Bodies. Built a front brace with two NACA air ducts for the brake hoses and covered the brace with the sheet. What I looked for the most was that it was no lower than the bottom of the front wheel and no higher than four inches above the center of the front hub.


GnC

 

[Geo]

Hey, I couldn't let this go by.....

First time I've seen a pic of me on this board!

That was a fun race until just after S/F with 2 to go and a CV joint got ugly (almost crashed into someone out of the race on the side of the track it pulled so bad). I nursed it to the end and finished at least.

Those Factory Five Cobras were slow. Even with me in a gimp car I practically had to let off the throttle for one of them to get by me.

 

[Tom Donnelly]

For what its worth, on a z your gonna need all the brake ducting you can get.

 

[darrinV]

I can't believe it. Smack talk already and I haven't even made it to the track yet.

 

[RFloyd]

Originally posted by GnC@Dec 1 2005, 02:17 AM
For what it's worth...I got a roll of sheet plastic from Performance Bodies. Built a front brace with two NACA air ducts for the brake hoses and covered the brace with the sheet. What I looked for the most was that it was no lower than the bottom of the front wheel and no higher than four inches above the center of the front hub.
GnC

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OK, I'm gonna bring this thread back because I'm getting ready to do my air dam and I want to make sure what I want to do is legal - and what I want to do is essentially what was described above, with the exception being instead of NACA ducts I want to use the rectangular ducts from Pegasus connecting to 3" hose, installed in an air dam made of the same plastic sheeting described above. For clarity's sake, here'a a picture of exactly what I'm planning, from my old car, the read and white Acura...

According to the wording of the rule, best I can tell, would lead me to believe this is actualy not legal. If the openings for the ducts were cut into the bumper cover it would be legal, but if the openings are cut into a lower air dam of any kind, they cab be no larger than whatever is required to attach a 3" dia hose. IMHO, this was an oversight because I'll bet the idea was that the air dam that they were envisioning would be something like the eurethane ones for the Z cars referenced in this thread, which had ducts moulded in, thus not neccesitating any description of how big of an opening allowed to be cut in.

Am I off base and reading too much into this?

 

[ddewhurst]

Richard, when I read the brake cooling rules the words I read are 3 inch diameter BRAKE DUCT & I read 3 inch diameter BRAKE HOSE. & then I cut a 4 x 6 inch hole in the spoiler for the 3 inch NACA BRAKE DUCT.

 

[RFloyd]

Originally posted by ddewhurst@Jan 25 2006, 01:51 PM
Richard, when I read the brake cooling rules the words I read are 3 inch diameter BRAKE DUCT & I read 3 inch diameter BRAKE HOSE. & then I cut a 4 x 6 inch hole in the spoiler for the 3 inch NACA BRAKE DUCT.

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See, that's my thinking as well, but the counterpoint is the "if it doesn't say you can, then you can't" argument that says that the rule actually only specifically says you can cut an opening that size in the front valence/bumper cover, not the air dam/spoiler. I think there should be a clarification to the rule to read that 2 openings of no larger than 5" x 7" each may be cut into either the bumper cover/valence or the air dam/spoiler if there is no extisting suitable hole or opening, in order to facilitate a maximum of 2 brake cooling hoses of no larger than 3" diameter each.

Whaddah ya think?

 

[seckerich]

Originally posted by RFloyd@Jan 25 2006, 08:40 AM
See, that's my thinking as well, but the counterpoint is the "if it doesn't say you can, then you can't" argument that says that the rule actually only specifically says you can cut an opening that size in the front valence/bumper cover, not the air dam/spoiler. I think there should be a clarification to the rule to read that 2 openings of no larger than 5" x 7" each may be cut into either the bumper cover/valence or the air dam/spoiler if there is no extisting suitable hole or opening, in order to facilitate a maximum of 2 brake cooling hoses of no larger than 3" diameter each.

Whaddah ya think?

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There is no restriction on the air dam other than the body outline rule. If you want a bucket sized hole it is legal as long as it does not require you to make a bigger hole in the bumper. Air under and around the bumper is free!! You could legally have a scoop as wide as the car under the front bumper--still legal.

 

[Greg Amy]

Originally posted by RFloyd@Jan 25 2006, 09:40 AM
Whaddah ya think?

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The air dam/spoiler is not subjected to the IIDSYTYC rule.

The air dam is an allowed modification as per 17.1.4.D.8.b ("A front spoiler/air dam is permitted.") At that point anything is allowed unless otherwise restricted (thus all the restrictions, and thus the evolution to splitters and diffusers.)

The reference to "two total openings" refers not to the air dam, but to the "valance", or nose if you will, of the car. There are no restrictions to openings within the added-on air dam...in fact subsection "b." specifcally states "[o]penings are permitted for the purposes of ducting air to the brakes, cooler, and radiator."

That, of course leads to an interesting rules conundrum: if you duct the hoses from your air dam - and not your valence - where is the size of that duct restricted? Answer: nowhere. The rule limits the size of the hoses only if the ducts come from the valance and not from the air dam; 17.1.4.D.6.b (allowed brake mods) allows simply "air ducts" with no size limitation.

(To further twist your panties, in spite of the stated rule there is no limitation for the use of "[d]ealer installed or limited production front... spoilers/air dams..." as long as they meet the other limitations...prove it was dealer-installed and not self-installed...)

- GA

 

[RacerBill]

Originally posted by GregAmy@Jan 25 2006, 11:12 AM
The air dam/spoiler is not subjected to the IIDSYTYC rule.

The air dam is an allowed modification as per 17.1.4.D.8.b ("A front spoiler/air dam is permitted.") At that point anything is allowed unless otherwise restricted (thus all the restrictions, and thus the evolution to splitters and diffusers.)

The reference to "two total openings" refers not to the air dam, but to the "valance", or nose if you will, of the car. There are no restrictions to openings within the added-on air dam...in fact subsection "b." specifcally states "[o]penings are permitted for the purposes of ducting air to the brakes, cooler, and radiator."

That, of course leads to an interesting rules conundrum: if you duct the hoses from your air dam - and not your valence - where is the size of that duct restricted? Answer: nowhere. The rule limits the size of the hoses only if the ducts come from the valance and not from the air dam; 17.1.4.D.6.b (allowed brake mods) allows simply "air ducts" with no size limitation.

(To further twist your panties, in spite of the stated rule there is no limitation for the use of "[d]ealer installed or limited production front... spoilers/air dams..." as long as they meet the other limitations...prove it was dealer-installed and not self-installed...)

- GA

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Greg: 17.1.4.D.8.b continues:

Where an air dam/spoiler is used, two total openings may
be cut in the front valance to allow the passage of up to a
three (3) inch diameter duct leading to each front brake/rotor
assembly.
Where no air dam/spoiler is used, two total openings of a
maximum size five (5) inches by seven (7) inches maybe cut
in the front valance so that brake ducts can be added with a
three (3) inch diameter hose leading to each front brake/rotor
assembly.

 

[RFloyd]

Originally posted by GregAmy@Jan 25 2006, 03:12 PM
The air dam/spoiler is not subjected to the IIDSYTYC rule.

The air dam is an allowed modification as per 17.1.4.D.8.b ("A front spoiler/air dam is permitted.") At that point anything is allowed unless otherwise restricted (thus all the restrictions, and thus the evolution to splitters and diffusers.)

The reference to "two total openings" refers not to the air dam, but to the "valance", or nose if you will, of the car. There are no restrictions to openings within the added-on air dam...in fact subsection "b." specifcally states "[o]penings are permitted for the purposes of ducting air to the brakes, cooler, and radiator."

..snip..

- GA

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Thanks! That's the clarification I needed to proceed comfortably.

 

[Greg Amy]

Bill, re-read your post: both rules refer to holes "in the valence", not the air dam...there is no limitation to holes (number and/or sizes) in the airdam, nor any limiation to hose sizes when ducting air to the brakes from the added-on air dam... - GA