Hey - Is there a reason that so few ITB folks (4) are registered for this race weekend? Actually, I am curious as to why we are only at 99 - 100 cars registered at this point overall? Is it because it is only a NERRC race? Not NARRC or PRO-IT? This was always a pretty heavily subscribed race if memory serves me? Curious.
NHMS Cheap Date
- Thread starter TimM ITB
- Start date
Very likely because of 26 ITB entrants for this weekend's double at Summit Point and 9 ITB entrants for the Watkins Glen double on the weekend subsequent to NHMS.
Same ole problem: Event fatigue. Too many events, too close together (geographically and chronologically), catering to too few people.
At least there's not another NJMP and/or Pro-IT event conflict this time.
GA
Same ole problem: Event fatigue. Too many events, too close together (geographically and chronologically), catering to too few people.
At least there's not another NJMP and/or Pro-IT event conflict this time.
GA
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
Does anyone actually care about NARRC? Not sure it has any effect??
It's a tough call this year as the schedule really makes it hard to compare. The biggest event is always the Triple Play I bet. High value. The lowest event is probaly the Non-NARRC single regional + Enduro. Low value.
Other events were up against Nationals and Pro IT and one weekend there was 2 competing races in Division.
Racers running the NARRC series will follow those events, plain and simple. Same with Pro IT. This year there were less events but more in conflict. Racers would really like it if the Regions like NNJR and NER would work together more unless they want to split profits.
I'm working very hard to avoid any conflicts but.........
What is considered a conflict?
NJMP events? I look at the entries on our conflicting weekends and only see a few and I mean few NER racers at their event.
So, I schedule no conflicts for next season with NJ but they don't decide their Pro IT schedule until....when, last minute.
We don't want to run against the Glen and one week before or one week after????
Don't want to go against any LRP pro events because we can't get workers?????
Look at the schedule and tell me how it should work??? I sure would like to understand what will make you(everyone) happy???
Triple race weekends? Half off double dippers entry?
How was the "Non NARRC" single(with two races) and $200 (3 hour) enduro a low value event?
What is considered a conflict?
NJMP events? I look at the entries on our conflicting weekends and only see a few and I mean few NER racers at their event.
So, I schedule no conflicts for next season with NJ but they don't decide their Pro IT schedule until....when, last minute.
We don't want to run against the Glen and one week before or one week after????
Don't want to go against any LRP pro events because we can't get workers?????
Look at the schedule and tell me how it should work??? I sure would like to understand what will make you(everyone) happy???
Triple race weekends? Half off double dippers entry?
How was the "Non NARRC" single(with two races) and $200 (3 hour) enduro a low value event?
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
I'm working very hard to avoid any conflicts but.........
What is considered a conflict?
NJMP events? I look at the entries on our conflicting weekends and only see a few and I mean few NER racers at their event.
So, I schedule no conflicts for next season with NJ but they don't decide their Pro IT schedule until....when, last minute.
We don't want to run against the Glen and one week before or one week after????
Don't want to go against any LRP pro events because we can't get workers?????
Look at the schedule and tell me how it should work??? I sure would like to understand what will make you(everyone) happy???
Triple race weekends? Half off double dippers entry?
How was the "Non NARRC" single(with two races) and $200 (3 hour) enduro a low value event?
I think the net/net is that most racers run between 2-4 weekends a season with some hard-core folks doing 5-8 weekends (8-10 sanctioned races). One race weekend per month seems to be maximum density.
Schedule all the races you want but we hate it when organizers come onto web forums begging for entries on weekends where there are 2 or 3 venues in Division to choose from or race weekends within 14 days of each other.
Do with that what you want.
Partial hijack... but picking up at the end of the current thread...
Ah... we are getting into customer targeting and segmentation... now we are in a wheel house of mine! I lurk a lot cuz i get overwhelmed with the data and opinions people have... but this one I feel strongly about and have the professional background to have "earned the right" to talk about!
Let's use me as an example... unemployed (sorta), child care resopnsibilities, crummy trailer, no tire budget (till yesterday), no crew, MAX budget concerns, variable responsibilities.... This a profile that says that he will do a local race when he can, prolly miss one day here and there of a weekend, cannot possibly do back to back weekends, and will not travel so much as he is largely solo, but with consistency of effort he will likely be at the first and last racesw of the year. Pretty clear what I would do based on a hypothesized schedule.
I think it would be a great use of time (I can do it/help) to take a serious assessment of the customer base. I am confident that with about 20 questions with a high response rate (individuals pressuring your racing buddies to fill the thing out), there is the ability to create what would amount to a map of customer preferences across budget... travel perspectives... weekends per year... qual/racequal/race v. qual/race/race/race... track preference... consistency... series preference... short-term baby sitting, etc...
If we are able to do this on a North East basis with the MoHud, Glen, NER, etc... groups working together on this I think we can a) set a killer schedule, b) learn a lot about preferences in a more managerial significant manner than this forum (which I do find very valuable in some areas... not others), c) set the stage great ongoing discussions and potential membership evolutions, d) hell... make some money for the club by selling anomized member data (actually it would go toward my startign a tire budget). Hell... expand it to 25 questions online and we can get a GREAT directional sense from the members as to a range of elements (fresh air, ECU, HANS, etc.... ).
Think what could be possible with a "for real" survey effort.
Very formative... could be killer as I am not sure that all the voices are heard on a per dollar spent basis (or whatever metric should be used).
If something like this exists... please excuse me. I will admit that the whole review board and such I have no idea about so maybe there is something there. This needs to be formalized (Jerry... I feel for you).
Am I out of line on this thinking or should we just ask "why not?"
Cost - Time for a Survey Mokey deal... or $3k-$5k for a professionally exeucted and sliced analysis. Not me, but I know a range of vendors that kill it for that money.
BB
Ah... we are getting into customer targeting and segmentation... now we are in a wheel house of mine! I lurk a lot cuz i get overwhelmed with the data and opinions people have... but this one I feel strongly about and have the professional background to have "earned the right" to talk about!
Let's use me as an example... unemployed (sorta), child care resopnsibilities, crummy trailer, no tire budget (till yesterday), no crew, MAX budget concerns, variable responsibilities.... This a profile that says that he will do a local race when he can, prolly miss one day here and there of a weekend, cannot possibly do back to back weekends, and will not travel so much as he is largely solo, but with consistency of effort he will likely be at the first and last racesw of the year. Pretty clear what I would do based on a hypothesized schedule.
I think it would be a great use of time (I can do it/help) to take a serious assessment of the customer base. I am confident that with about 20 questions with a high response rate (individuals pressuring your racing buddies to fill the thing out), there is the ability to create what would amount to a map of customer preferences across budget... travel perspectives... weekends per year... qual/racequal/race v. qual/race/race/race... track preference... consistency... series preference... short-term baby sitting, etc...
If we are able to do this on a North East basis with the MoHud, Glen, NER, etc... groups working together on this I think we can a) set a killer schedule, b) learn a lot about preferences in a more managerial significant manner than this forum (which I do find very valuable in some areas... not others), c) set the stage great ongoing discussions and potential membership evolutions, d) hell... make some money for the club by selling anomized member data (actually it would go toward my startign a tire budget). Hell... expand it to 25 questions online and we can get a GREAT directional sense from the members as to a range of elements (fresh air, ECU, HANS, etc.... ).
Think what could be possible with a "for real" survey effort.
Very formative... could be killer as I am not sure that all the voices are heard on a per dollar spent basis (or whatever metric should be used).
If something like this exists... please excuse me. I will admit that the whole review board and such I have no idea about so maybe there is something there. This needs to be formalized (Jerry... I feel for you).
Am I out of line on this thinking or should we just ask "why not?"
Cost - Time for a Survey Mokey deal... or $3k-$5k for a professionally exeucted and sliced analysis. Not me, but I know a range of vendors that kill it for that money.
BB
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
Interesting idea Brad. I remember a few years back the PTB wanted to modify the points structure to 'motivate' the membership to attend a 5th race as the vast majority of drivers only ran 4 races in one year. 4 races, really. Probably accomplished on 2 double weekends.
What would the 'perfect' schedule look like? Probably something slightly different for each of us. 95% of drivers don't run for a Championship and their opinion is seldon heard on that topic.
What I like about NARRC is that it's a series that can encompass 6 tracks.
What would the 'perfect' schedule look like? Probably something slightly different for each of us. 95% of drivers don't run for a Championship and their opinion is seldon heard on that topic.
What I like about NARRC is that it's a series that can encompass 6 tracks.
I don't recall ever begging for entries?
I have on some occasions mentioned registration is open but is that begging?
I do only book one event per month for NER.
Yes, as has been mentioned in the past there were conflicting events but explain how July event was against two others and yet it was NER's best attended NHMS event?
Yes, if in fact many drivers are limited to 4 or 5 events, which 4 or 5, because not many will agree on which ones.
We at NER are very fortunate to have two tracks and quite a bit of flexability in scheduling but this is not the caes in other regions. Should we then wait for everyone else to get their dates then take what's left?
We as a division have been trying to work out a National schedule and after a year have made little to no progress.
I have on some occasions mentioned registration is open but is that begging?
I do only book one event per month for NER.
Yes, as has been mentioned in the past there were conflicting events but explain how July event was against two others and yet it was NER's best attended NHMS event?
Yes, if in fact many drivers are limited to 4 or 5 events, which 4 or 5, because not many will agree on which ones.
We at NER are very fortunate to have two tracks and quite a bit of flexability in scheduling but this is not the caes in other regions. Should we then wait for everyone else to get their dates then take what's left?
We as a division have been trying to work out a National schedule and after a year have made little to no progress.
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
What does that have to do with the Division? You keep confusing NER with a team effort between Regions.
If it makes for a better Divisional schedule, and you have the flexibilty, then YES.
Why?
The regions are the division, what happens at NJ has an effect on Summit, Summit has an effect on someone else, it has to be the division if at all.
We don't need a divisional regional schedule. Other than the Glen or LRP the other tracks have no effect on NER.
Why no success, because no one is willing to address the issues for fear of loosing their date/event.
We don't need a divisional regional schedule. Other than the Glen or LRP the other tracks have no effect on NER.
Why no success, because no one is willing to address the issues for fear of loosing their date/event.
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
I disagree. Pocono and NJMP are in play bro.
And until someone gives, we will be having this debate for years.
I'm with AB and GA on this. Business 101. Supply and demand. Too much supply to meet the limited demand, especially in a retracted economy. Also, why would someone want to run 3 races at NHMS except convenience or points? For my personal schedule I'd skip 3 NHMS dates to go to Summit or Mid-O or the Glen and be ahaed in time and money. I think you'll see more and more drivers doing this. ...Going for quality over quantity.
R
R
lateapex911
Super Moderator
I'm not your typical customer, as I live near NYC, not in the Boston centric area, but my 'considerations" for tracks to attend include:
Summit Point
The Glen
Pocono
NJMP(s)
Lime Rock
Palmer(?)
NHMS
I'm MORE likely to hit the Glen,than NHMS, as it's a great track, and only adds a few towing hours.
But, I like the NER approach to double and triple races that is lacking from the regions that run the Glen, typically.
Last year I branched out. Honestly, I can only take the transitions at NHMS for so long, so I added Summit and VIR to the schedule.
Some reasons I attend a race are intangible, at least from a survey standpoint, like, likelihood of good competition (a reason I went to Summit). Or the likelihood of my friends being there (the reason I'd go to NHMS). While you can have questions like that on a survey, you can't predict when my friends will be. Still Brads nice volunteering is something I'd take up as a Regional grand poobah. it might shed light on the subject from a different angle which is never bad.
But, bottom line Jerry is that yes, conflicts DO have an effect, even if they are far away, although those effects might be small. (last year I had to chose between NHMS events and other (NJMP, Summit, Glen) and chose them instead)
Just one data point, of course.
And I certainly understand the Regions need to look out for it's bottom line first and foremost.
Summit Point
The Glen
Pocono
NJMP(s)
Lime Rock
Palmer(?)
NHMS
I'm MORE likely to hit the Glen,than NHMS, as it's a great track, and only adds a few towing hours.
But, I like the NER approach to double and triple races that is lacking from the regions that run the Glen, typically.
Last year I branched out. Honestly, I can only take the transitions at NHMS for so long, so I added Summit and VIR to the schedule.
Some reasons I attend a race are intangible, at least from a survey standpoint, like, likelihood of good competition (a reason I went to Summit). Or the likelihood of my friends being there (the reason I'd go to NHMS). While you can have questions like that on a survey, you can't predict when my friends will be. Still Brads nice volunteering is something I'd take up as a Regional grand poobah. it might shed light on the subject from a different angle which is never bad.
But, bottom line Jerry is that yes, conflicts DO have an effect, even if they are far away, although those effects might be small. (last year I had to chose between NHMS events and other (NJMP, Summit, Glen) and chose them instead)
Just one data point, of course.
And I certainly understand the Regions need to look out for it's bottom line first and foremost.
gran racing
Super Moderator
Up to 28 b cars. test day, then three days of racing (entry fee $375 for all 3 races). Lots of activities planned for kids, adults. There are a lot of quite fast b cars registered. You chose wrong Tim. 
StephF
New member
dickita15
New member
There are quite a few drives that unlike you do one or two tracks. There are probably 100 who only race at NH. There are probably 200 who only race at summit. A little less than once a month at NH does not seem excessive to me. Jerry has gotten some flex with NH so next year the schedule is looking like less conflicts.
The reason IMHO that the division has not been able to make any progress on the divisions National race schedule is that pretty much all of the nine regions are only looking at what is good for their event. NER made a proposal to run a national every other year is most other tracks did as well. no interest.
Andy Bettencourt
Super Moderator
And Jerry has stated to me and I am sure plenty of others while we bench-race on this topic that the NHMS races can stand out their own financially with virtually no trouble.
It's the annual Lime Rock discussion where all of this comes into play, especially when NJMP is now pulling entrants.
It's the annual Lime Rock discussion where all of this comes into play, especially when NJMP is now pulling entrants.
dickita15
New member
Just to get the rumor mill going that may be a lot better next year, is so lap records set at cheap date could stand forever.