Sound Deadener Removal

But.....factory methods would require you to strip and reapply in the normal course of painting, if you were not able to prep the dampening sheets properly. I can not imagine the factory allowing a bodyshop to remove those sections when repairing a customers car. Obviously, they serve a pruose in the NVH package, and must be repaired properly, like anything else.

IIDSYCYC.
 
Not so fast there, Jake. I DID read the rules before we started the Pablo build and I came to the decision I posted above (about paint). I wasn't being a smart ass there. IISYCYSAHC.

K [/b]
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Hmmm.... I know I've seen unmodified cars with this material that had paint on it of the same color and type as the surrounding floor areas. I would therefore have to conclude that removal of the material was not part of paint prep at the factory. In that case, what would make it part of paint prep for a race car?

And to paraphrase Jake, even if it was originally unpainted, what part of the GCR allows you not to replace it after you've finished painting? :)
 
TAR removal is LEGAL.

9.1.3.D.9.f. "Carpets, center consoles, floor mats, headliners, sun roof liner and frame, dome lights, grab handles, and their insulating, attaching or operating mechanisms may be removed."

Break it down, remove the other components for a minute... "Carpets and their insulating mechanisms may be removed"

Everyone agree what carpet is? What is "their insulating mechanisms"? The GCR does not define any of these words, so I did here. The answer is below. Look like the stuff you took out?

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product...0002668/c-10101


http://www.ioportracing.com/instructions/e36m3-rollbar.htm
"remove the sound insulation material from the floor to achieve the best fit although this is not always necessary. This tar-like material can be chipped away using a wood chisel."

http://www.autoatlanta.net/action.lasso?-d...ords=10&-search

Call the stuff what you want but what deadens sound? Insulation. What is the insulation made of? Tar. What's under your cars carpet to insulate? Tar. Insulation is NOT limited to a synthetic fiber like pad.
 
So, Mark, you're calling tar thats attached to the chassis and painted over in many cases, part of the carpet insulation? What do you call the fluffy material under the carpet?

You're stretching, and good for you, but I'm not buying....
 
So, Mark, you're calling tar thats attached to the chassis and painted over in many cases, part of the carpet insulation? What do you call the fluffy material under the carpet?

You're stretching, and good for you, but I'm not buying....
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Yes Jake, but only the tar in the interior of the car on the floorboards. I am not referring to tar on the undercarriage or wheel wells. As I stated "Insulation is NOT limited to a synthetic fiber like pad". Take a look at the JC Whitney link here... http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Product...0002668/c-10101

I'm not the only one who says tar is an insulating mechanism and as JC Whitney states "Mount on front and rear floor pans under carpeting, padding, etc." The GCR says... Carpets and their insulating mechanisms may be removed. This tar is a related insulating mechanism.

This isn't much of a stretch. Now the transmission shift debate... that's a stretch.
 
I'm not the only one who says tar is an insulating mechanism and as JC Whitney states "Mount on front and rear floor pans under carpeting, padding, etc." The GCR says... Carpets and their insulating mechanisms may be removed. This tar is a related insulating mechanism.
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It may be related, but as an OEM engineering carpet expert, this tar is NOT a part of any carpet system used in a modern car. It IS an insulating mechanism of the car for overall car NVH performance, not the carpet. Carpets are part of the NVH package, the overall car NVH package is not part of the carpet.

This is the where my confusion has come from. Based on the response I have recieved, and what I see as a lack of sound arguments based on my experience, I will not remove the tar sheets until SCCA clarifies the situation. I have asked them to do this, I just hope they rule towards your interpretation, as a lot of cars would be deemed illegal if they go towards mine.
 
This is an interesting situation. You wrote to the ITAC for clarification, and honestly, we can't give it to you, if we follow the bylaws and procedures that we're supposed to. It's really a rules question and those need to go to another body, and they will give you a response on it. There's a fee involved too. (Which sucks, I know, sorry. They charge a fee to keep it under control, I guess.)

Anyway, the ITAC is looking at your letter, and we will decide if the letter brings up a good point or not, (Which is sort of a defacto judgement, I know, LOL)
IF it does, we go to the CRB and ask what the original intent was. Then we go from there.

At least thats the way it looks now.....
 
i am in the legal to remove camp. been there and done it. any and all are free to protest me at great lakes division events next year as well as hopefully the ARRC. #91 ITB.

9.1.3.D.9.f. "Carpets, center consoles, floor mats, headliners, sun roof liner and frame, dome lights, grab handles, and their insulating, attaching or operating mechanisms may be removed."[/b]
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and to be devil's advocate for the rules nerds, did any of you remove your "Carpets, center consoles, floor mats, headliners, sun roof liner and frame, dome lights, grab handles, their insulating, attaching" AND ".....operating mechanisms?"

after all, the rules say you can only remove one OR the other, right? they clearly did not intend us to remove both the insulating attaching AND their operating mechanisms, did they?

my take on this is that this is why the other thread regarding a winter rules re-write is essentially doomed. if we can't agree on what the current rules set is, how can we re-write it without rehashing these items.

tom, who is $0.02 poorer now. but would gladly be $10.00 poorer if we could stop by someplace and discuss in a more civilized pub, :birra:
 
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